Stakeholder Interviews 2024-08-20

Intro:

  • (we are Artun and Jonas from Gofore, working on the GovStack Sandbox)

  • Thanks for following our invitation

  • would like to to talk to you about Govstack and more explicitly, about the Sandbox, in order to understand how you’re currently presenting the sandbox to interested parties, so we can identify potential opportunities to improve the communication

  • therefore, we brought a couple of questions along

  • in order to make this as comparable as possible, we would like to go through these questions 1 by 1 and want to mostly stick with our guideline, of course, feel free to ask questions or for explanations if you need more informations

  • the interview will take a maximum of 30 minutes

  • no right or wrong answers, don’t feel afraid to hurt our feelings

  • we would like to record this only for internal analysis, do you grant permission to do this?

  • are you ready to start?

Question

1st(Trail) Interview Aug 21, 2024

2nd interview Aug 22, 2024

3rd interview Aug 27, 2024

4th interview Aug 27, 2024

Question

1st(Trail) Interview Aug 21, 2024

2nd interview Aug 22, 2024

3rd interview Aug 27, 2024

4th interview Aug 27, 2024

What’s your role at GovStack?

  • PM / technical Lead on German side

  • managing products, Sandbox, compliance testing, represent German site on diff. WG

  • leading country engagement act. on giz side

  • strategic support for management team

  • Programmleiterin

 

EN

  • program lead

  • program lead at ITU

How often do you present GovStack to external audience? (once a …)

  • 1-2 times / week

  • once-twice a week

  • 2x pro Woche, aber nicht immer via Präsentation, Gespräche

EN

2x per week, but not always via presentation, talks

  • every day, 2-3 times

How do you explain Building Blocks during the presentations? (Learn about artifacts)

-

  • specs are heart of govstack initiative

  • they’re specs for software, not software

  • can be stacked on top of each other to build digital services

  • tries to explain along pract. examples

  • visual elements? no

    • sometimes gitbook, but it confuses them because it’s very technical

  • sagt, dass es das Herzstück von Govstack ist, wiederverwendbare Softwarekomponenten

  • Softwarearchitektur, die als Land aufgebaut werden muss, einmal aufbauen, wieder nutzen, nach hohe Standards aufgebaut

  • Markt zugänglich machen, idealerweise mehr Verfügbarkeit in Zukunft

  • Interoerable Funktionaliät

  • Ein Baustein ist erster Schritt zur Umsetzung von GovStack

    • (wurde am Anfang nur als Bold Vision mit hohem Risiko gesehen)

    • (viel Konkurrenz… am Anfang viel Kritik)

    • nach und nach Vertrauen aufbauen, langsam anfangen, … überzeugen, dass es über Wahlperioden hinweg weitergehen kann

    • wahre Wachstumschance langfristig

EN

  • Reference Framework:

    • konkurrierende Systeme

    • Akzeptanz als als neutrales Framework ist Ziel

    • “allein kommen wir nicht durch mit Partnerländern”

    • “wenn ihr nach diesem Ansatz aufbaut, habt ihr bessere Chancen

      • Stakeholder / Testimonials Prinzip

  • says that at the heart of Govstack is reusable software components.

  • Software architecture to be built as a country, build once, use again, built to high standards

  • Make market accessible, ideally more availability in the future

  • Interoerable functionality

  • A building block is the first step towards implementing GovStack

    • (was initially only seen as a bold vision with high risk)

    • (a lot of competition... a lot of criticism at the beginning)

    • gradually build trust, start slowly, ... convince that it can continue over election periods

    • True growth opportunity in the long term

  • Reference Framework:

    • competing systems

    • Acceptance as a neutral framework is the goal

    • “We can't get through alone with partner countries”

    • “if you build according to this approach, you have better chances

    • Stakeholder / testimonials principle

  • use info deck with slides from Hanni, building a house

  • jump to website, using resources there

  • explaining each of offerings

  • showing gitbook, specifications (building blocks) etc

    • interoperable

How often do you present the Sandbox? (once a …)

  • always when presenting GovStack

  • 2 sentences to 10min roughly

  • usually goes through 4 areas (govtest etc.)

  • mentions sandbox, details of sandbox handed over to Nico

  • Sandbox very complicated? to explain

  • “why using sandbox and not directly developing the system?”

  • her pitch isn’t “good enough” to make the case for the sandbox

  • details → Nico

  • nur grundlegend / High Level

  • Sandbox Ansprechpartner aus Team dabei für Details dazu

EN

  • basic / high level only

    Sandbox contact person from Team dabei for details

  • features for tech and non tech

    • simulator to complement info and specs

    • landing page etc.…

  • (explained very elaborated here)

    • usually uses construction permit as example

    • minikube / diy content

    • (working with Ayush to check videos and potential links to Sandbox)

Whom do you present GovStack to?

  • private sector companies but most times gov. parties

  • sometimes donors, i.e. EU

  • usually GIZ colleagues, sector-agnostic

    • when they like it, they pull political partners in, usually semi-technical contacts from governments, they usually bring their technical experts

  • diff. target groups - example RWANDA

    • they don’t have one place to show gov. services in an overview

    • pitch to political partners could be strenghtened, if you could show this case to political partners (more practical?!)

    • “they care about tech aspect”

    • thinks there should be a different pitch for that

  • alle, die zur Teilhabe oder Finanzierung gewonnen werden sollen

  • immer mal wieder Check-In nötig mit Audience

  • auch intern, zur Geschäftsentwicklung

    • deutsches Ökosystem

  • internationale Geber

  • Finanzierung und Politik

EN

  • All those who are to be won over for participation or financing

    • check-in with the audience from time to time

  • also internally, for business development

  • German ecosystem

  • international donors

  • Funding and politics

 

When presenting the Sandbox, what are usually the primary goals doing it?

  • different from presentation to presentation

  • short mentioning to full blown demo showcase incl. working materials

  • …following the question, what he wants to present

  • more tooling showcase when it becomes an in depth presentation

  • (gets more practical in occasions, to show its practicality to donors)

  •  

  • …that they understand the BBs, and that they can develop use cases before going to a live env.

 

  • first, make sure, digital teams know, all the resources exist

    • easy to use templates

    • service design

    • etc.

  • make it easy to adopt

  •  

comfortable when presenting?

  • most of the time not, thinks we could have done better → content and work results are not good enough?

  • doesn’t have USP clear, i.e. some countries say they have own dev. environment, why using Sandbox?

  • “why investing money in developing a use case in sandbox?”

 

yes

(optional) In your own words, would you please describe what Sandbox is?

-an enviroment to demonstrate where we vaguely called the govstack approach and hopefully in the future offer tools to test this approach. :_)

  • (see recording)

  • why not comfortable? → “to have understanding on how would it work to combine services?”

  • Es ist unsere “Referenzplattform”

    • nutzen für Demonstrationszwecke, “uns gegen eigenen Ansatz getestet”, nur kleinere Versionen deployed, gedownloaded und gewhitelabeled um für eigene

EN

  • It is our “reference platform”

  • use for demonstration purposes, “tested us against our own approach”, only smaller versions deployed, downloadable and whitelabeled to use for own

  • is an environemnt that ficilitates digital teams to easily follow and guid and configure microsevice architetcture with … (see recording)

When presenting the Sandbox, do you follow a fixed approach?
-> If you’re adapting to the audience, what and why are you adapting?

(If the user did not mentioned) What artifacts are you presenting? would you please show us?

  • along the lines from confluence documentation

    • small adjustments to certain audiences

  • showing specs, then sandbox, then sometimes govmarket part

  • adaption: yes

  • often audience seems overwhelmed by quantity of information, suggests due to possibility to look it up later

  • “no…kind of”

  • narrative build upon BBs

  • Sandbox for testing

  • when they want to see it, shows GitBook

  • then goes into one of the show cases, i.e. USCT

    • uses simulation

    • clicks through first 3-4 steps

  • if everyone shall be more comfortable (see recording?!?!)

 

 

 

When presenting the Sandbox, what are the most common questions you’re receiving?

  • “can we download the software/platform and use it?”

  • “how did you decide for software solutions?”

  • they assume other things behind the term “sandbox” often, more testing then demo (as it’s the case right now)

  • only question: “is it free? is it open source? can we use it?”

  • when Nico gives it, there are usually more questions

 

  • (are impressed)

  • some people overwhelmed

  • will take time to go through all of these

  • (part of the training often)
    → reach out to Vasil?

When presenting the Sandbox, did you present remotely AND on location in the past?
-> If so, are there any mentionable differences or things to consider when presenting remotely?

  • usually virtually, few / year live, i.e. beginning of the year on the MOSIP event

  • differences: in person it’s harder to click some where, feels more pressure regarding time on stage, on stage more hectic, harder to navigate in live sessions

  • a few in person presentations

  • mentionable diff.: harder to have notes in person

  • with sandbox she needs notes

 

 

What the biggest obstacle or issue when presenting the Sandbox?

  • fells there’s a lot of text content, feels he lost people there due to amount and technicality of content, missing visual support

    • usually explains that this is the technical “light” level, because there’s also guthub for developers, looking at it like layers, gets more technical from layer to layer

  • usually first shows architecture diagram, then shows the click through, while doing it, audience has to imagine what’s happening

    • in one instance he used both side by side, felt more comfortable

    • more helpful when going into high detail presenting it, most presentations are not that deep

  • understand USP better, so she can sell it better

 

from team:

  • feeling: for most people same challenge

    • all so involved in their field of work

    • they know that heart of govstack is technical aspect, hard to present and feeling comfortable, because they don’t know to 100% how it works

 

  • ideally they wouldn’t need a special presentation purpose deliverable

  • she loves live demos

  • live demos would be preferred

 

  • before it didn’t have all the links

 

  • Rwanda example

  • up and running infrastructure is not monitored currently, when engagement is done, this is not known

  • → must be aware

(Optional) When thinking about this, how would you improve it?

  • vector diagram in split view to show what’s happening in demo

  • value proposition or entry point to demo is shortcutted via sth. like a fake government portal

  • target group oriented benefits litst

    • i.e. if you are XXX, then the sandbox can YYY etc. for all target groups

 

 

(Optional) Do you know any knowledge about other usages of Sandbox?

How and why people, outside from Govstack, are using sandbox?

Did you receive any feedback in this regard?

  • “not sure”

  • usually no requests from interested parties

  • knowledge that there is “something seems often enough for people, usually it remains there

  • don’t

 

  • used as part of the training

  • used in lectures

  •  

 

 

 

 

 

(If there is time left) Would you please show us the steps you take when you are presenting the sandbox?

 

 

(showed it during session, see recording)

 

 

Nico want it separate demonstration and usage.

image-20240821-113239.png
image-20240821-113301.png

 

 

 

 

 

Additional Question (Jonas)

Demonstration purpose and do it yourself purpose, wants to see it separately.

 

  • was schaffen, was genutzt wird

  • dinge schaffen, die gebraucht werden

  • demo

  • benefits

 

 

wenn Ministerien ansprechen, pfad muss eingehalten

 

Rückfragen:

  • Sandbox: In welcher Tiefe anwendbar? Was kann ich damit alles machen über Präsentation hinaus? Kurzer Pitch fehlt…

  • Was könnte es werden, was braucht’s dafür?

EN

  • create something that is used

  • create things that are needed

  • demo

  • benefits

when addressing ministries, path must be followed

Queries:

  • Sandbox: To what depth can it be used? What can I do with it beyond presentation? Short pitch is missing...

  • What could it become, what does it need?

can connect t two other contacts